Quick now: Who is the #1 hated man in America? Osama? Gary Condit? Saddam? Bill Clinton? George Steinbrenner? Mike Tyson? Naw. One survey said it was Ken Lay, Enron's former chairman and CEO. We don't have to repeat Enron's woes to you. Or to the 20,000 former employees who lost both their jobs and their retirement plans when Enron imploded in late 2001 and early 2002.
     In fact, we'd planned on making Lay our Loser of the Bi-Month ... in a witty, yet compelling essay on what happens when Christians cite another Christian's success in business (or sports or music or televangelism) as proof that God loves us bestest. Call it "The Jabez Syndrome."
     We all watched for weeks as Congressmen and editorial writers dog-piled on the man who had once been head of the seventh largest company in the United States. He came to symbolize what's wrong with a no-holds-barred capitalism that can blithely influence Big Governments and callously ruin little people.
     But a couple of funny things happened. The more everybody hated Lay, the more we here at The Door began to ... I dunno ... question that hatred. First we read Marilyn Swartz' insightful article in Texas Monthly (November 2001), which revealed that it wasn't Lay who was running things, it was corporate wunderkind CEO Jeffrey Skilling who actually created Enron's scorched-earth mentality.
     Second, Lay's embattled wife Linda told NBC's Today Show, "Nobody even really knows what the truth is yet. The only truth I know 100 percent for sure is that my husband is an honest, decent, moral human being who would do absolutely nothing wrong." And later, "There's some things that he wasn't told. There's some things that the board of directors didn't know. But that will all come out in the investigation. Those things will come out. That's what we're all praying for—is that they'll get the truth."
     Finally, Sherron Watkins, the Enron VP who first raised concerns internally about the company's finances in August 2001, testified on Feb. 15, 2002, that Lay wasn't to blame for the shady dealings, even though she'd repeatedly met with him during the previous summer and fall:
     "It is my humble opinion he did not understand the gravity of the condition the company was in."
     Watkins claimed instead that Skilling and Andrew Fastow (another Enron exec) "misserved" Lay—and the company.
     So what's this mean? Just this. On May 18, 2001, I interviewed Ken Lay for a book I was doing on Christian CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. In early 2002, the publisher decided (probably wisely) that the inclusion of the Lay interview would unduly imbalance the book and detract from the statement it was trying to make.
     So here it is—the entire interview, uncut and unaltered—conducted in the halcyon days when Enron was the #1 buyer and seller of natural gas and the largest wholesale power marketer in the United States, the World Trade Center was still standing, and everybody thought French figure skating judges could be objective. Make up your own mind about Kenneth L. Lay.

THE DOOR MAGAZINE: Did you come from a religious background?
KENNETH L. LAY: A very religious background. My father was an ordained minister from when I was very young, probably about two years old. My mother was also very religious. She came from a religious family and I've spent a lot of time in church.
DOOR: Has it been a fairly consistent walk for you?
LAY: I think I came to it from a very early age and pretty much stayed with it. My father was a Baptist minister, so in the Baptist tradition, I wasn't christened at birth. Instead, you make your own decision when you come to accept Jesus Christ as your savior. In my case, that was about age 12 when I was baptized. But certainly, even in those earlier years, with my dad being a minister, I was going to church regularly. When I got a little older, I was very active in the youth groups and Sunday School classes. So I was very active in church throughout my youth.
DOOR: You are Christian with a background in both government and industry.
LAY: I don't think government was much different than business—and maybe not much different than teaching or a lot of other things. I've always just felt a strong presence in my life, a faith, and the will of God directing my life and giving me guidance for what He'd like to do with my life. There have been too many events in my life where it would be hard to say, "That was just coincidence." Certain roads were crossed and certain directions became apparent, which at the time—maybe for many people—didn't look all that apparent. But the results have later turned out to be exactly the right thing at the right time. I can give you any number of examples but, how my two sisters and I were able to attend college might show the faith of my parents. Dad was always a minister the whole time I was growing up, but he always had another job, too. He never could support the family just being a minister. He was always at small rural churches.
DOOR: Aren't the majority of Baptist pastors bi-vocational?
LAY: I wouldn't be surprised. We lived most of my younger years in a small, rural, agricultural community where he was the minister. But then my older sister, who is three years older, came of age for college. First of all, it was unusual for kids in our community to go to college and it was certainly unusual for kids in our family to go to college. Still, my mom and dad always instilled in the three of us that your education was not completed until you finished college. It was just expected. You went to high school, then you went to college. When my sister went away to college that first year, she went through—as I put it—all of her savings, all of dad's savings and all of my savings. My parents realized that wasn't going to work. So that summer dad resigned the church, quit his job, he and mother packed up the family, and took us to Columbia, Mo., so we could live at home and go to college. That decision fundamentally changed our lives. My two sisters and I graduated from college and ultimately my older sister and I finished our Ph.Ds.
DOOR: You've said before that you've felt God's hand throughout your life and career.
LAY: I started my career at Exxon in the mid-'60s while the Vietnam War was heating up. I had to make a decision to go into the military. I went to Naval Officer Candidate School in Newport, R.I., in '68. I had my orders to go to Athens, Ga., for supply school. About half way en route, I got orders again ordering me not to go to Athens, but to come to Washington, D. C., to work in the Pentagon for the Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Financial Management. I
didn't know until many years later all the history behind that, but that turned out, again, to be a major change in the direction of my life. Instead of going out on a destroyer as a supply corps officer, I spent three years in the Pentagon, and undertook a major study for the Pentagon, and developed a lot of relationships and friends that became very important to me over the years.
It was also during this time that I was able to finish the dissertation for my Ph.D., as well as teach graduate courses at George Washington University.
In 1971, just three months before I was getting ready to leave the military after my three-year commitment was up, and go back to work for Exxon, my former professor and academic advisor from the University of Missouri was appointed a commissioner at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission in Washington. He persuaded me to stay there as his top assistant for a year and a half. Again, the timing turned out just perfect and the experience turned out to be invaluable throughout my professional career.
     Throughout my life, things have fallen into place that turned out to be the right thing to do at the time. Looking back, this door opened, then this door opened, and maybe then that door closed. I always picked the thing that seemed to be the most interesting, the most fun. But looking back, 30 or 40 years later in some cases, those were the things that just really fit together perfectly for the career I've had. I am convinced that God was—and is—guiding all the way.
DOOR: It's hard to believe in coincidences anymore.
LAY: Particularly if they are multiple coincidences, they just seem to occur one after another. Whether it be meeting certain people at certain times, certain jobs all of a sudden appearing, or certain opportunities appearing. And then there are some things you'd never think about. I never had any aspiration to go into the government or the military, but then this door opens and I end up spending three years as a Naval officer in the Pentagon and then one and a half year at the Federal Regulatory Commission. Then, as I was preparing to leave and return to Exxon, I was offered the position of Deputy Undersecretary of Interior, overseeing our nation's energy. This was right before and during the early stages of the oil embargo in 1972 and '73. We prepared the first energy message ever delivered by a sitting President. These things just fit in place. They all turned out to have an enormous impact on my life.
DOOR: Do you believe God has a purpose for you in the position that you now hold?
LAY: Very much so, very much so. I have a friend, Michael Novak, who wrote a little book called Business as a Calling. Particularly with my father being a minister, I always tried to test whether I had a calling to go into the ministry. I never felt I did. Dad always said, "Don't do it unless you do." But as time evolved, initially I did think pretty seriously about becoming a college professor and I did teach for a while. But I became convinced that my true calling was business, even going back to the days I worked on the farm in central Missouri. There is something fascinating about business that has always fascinated me.
     I think, in my case, I've been able to make a bigger and more positive impact through business than I could have in any other profession, including the ministry. I've been able to impact more lives, more communities, and more causes than I could have otherwise.
DOOR: Enron is publicly held and most public companies have more restrictions about self-expression than privately held companies. On a practical level, how has your faith impacted what you do at Enron?
LAY: First is how it sets the tone for the company. I begin many of our business dinners, and particularly special ones with directors and senior employees and community leaders, with a prayer. I think that sets the tone as to the importance of faith, at least in my life and sets the tone for the entire meeting. I have a retired minister on staff at Enron who does a lot of counseling for our employees. It's at their discretion, at their request, but he's available particularly when employees are going through or experiencing the death of loved ones, or tragic accidents, or maybe depression or whatever. Obviously as he counsels, he also ministers.
     My employees know that I take basic religious principles very seriously. Our value system has as its first value, respect for each other. This is really not much more than the golden rule. Our second value requires every one to practice absolute integrity in everything they do. Everyone knows that I personally have a very strict code of personal conduct that I live by. This code is based on Christian values. It's not something I carry around on my sleeve or talk about that much with employees, but they've also read about my life and my experiences and about my dad, so they've heard many of the stories of my life and the role that my faith has played. They just know that's a very important part of my life.
DOOR: We're talking about nearly 20,000 employees. It would be hard to even see all of them in a lifetime.
LAY: I want to make sure that you understand another very important fact: We do have nearly 20,000 employees worldwide and we obviously have a lot of different religious faiths practiced by these employees. We respect these employees and their religious beliefs. We try to celebrate the holy days for many faiths—the Jewish religion, the Moslem religion. We also have a lot of Hindus; with our business in India as well as those we recruit in the United States. Of course, we also have a few who follow Confucius and other Oriental religions. We really try to respect everybody's beliefs. But it's widely known that I have a very strong Christian background and Christian faith.
DOOR: Looking through the literature, Enron appears to make striving for excellence a priority. Does that come from your faith background or is that just good business?
LAY: It's probably both. Excellence is one of our core values, along with respect, integrity and communication. We try to achieve excellence in everything we do. The Bible is very clear that we each need to be the best that we can be to realize our God-given potential. I use those words quite freely within Enron. I basically try to create an environment at Enron where everybody has the opportunity to realize his or her God-given potential. That means that our people are always striving for excellence and to set the standard for our businesses by which others will measure their success.
DOOR: From a business standpoint, does being a Christian mean you're going to have to make some difficult decisions? For instance, working in countries where bribes are an expected way of doing business.
LAY: I don't find matters like that difficult at all.
DOOR: Why?
LAY: I think there are the right things to do and there are the wrong things to do. Let me also say that, from the standpoint of the example you just mentioned, U.S. law prohibits bribing any public officials. But even beyond that, when I talk about integrity as one of our values, I usually talk about absolute integrity, as though it needs to be qualified. It is really always doing the right thing. Not bending the rules, not cutting the corners, not doing things that are illegal or immoral. I think that fits my faith, but it's also good business. But indeed, I don't find it difficult. And we have been in countries where it became apparent that you couldn't do business without bribing somebody and we just pulled out. We will leave a country before we will compromise our values.
DOOR: As a Christian who is a businessman, what advice do you have for someone thinking about a career in business?
LAY: I think first they need to realize that a lot of the public caricatures, or images, or perceptions, of business leaders are totally inaccurate. I'm thinking particularly of the way business people are usually portrayed in our movies and entertainment today. Not that some business people aren't like that, but that is not the norm. I think a person of high Christian values, high morals, high standards, can be very successful in business. And from my standpoint, there is no conflict between those beliefs, those values, and being a very successful businessperson.
     Archie Dunham is the Chairman and CEO of Conoco. He's also Chairman of the Board of Trustees for Second Baptist Church of Houston, one of the most dynamic and largest churches in the world. He's a devoted Christian. He's also a first-class business executive. There is no conflict between those two. Because of his values, his success in business, his giving back to his community and his very humble beginnings, he was recently inducted into The Horatio Alger Society.
DOOR: A number of the individuals interviewed in this book are members of the Horatio Alger Society. There seems to be a common link.
LAY: There appears to be. Having been active in that organization for four or five years, it's amazing the number of members that are very, very public and active in their Christian faith.
DOOR: Why?
LAY: The nature of that organization is basically people that have begun life with some adversity. It could be poverty, but it can be a lot of other things. And they've proved to be very successful in life—as well as very successful in giving back to their communities and giving back to society in very generous ways. First of all, it could be that that adversity develops faith. Secondly, I think people with a deep faith tend to be the kind of people that, in fact, can succeed, can be very successful at whatever they attempt to do—but also want to give back to others.
DOOR: If they can persevere, they have the faith to continue.
LAY: If they can persevere, they know that they've got a much higher force looking over them. They've got Somebody guiding them, directing them, really wanting them to succeed, and even showing them and telling them how to succeed. They also know they are expected to touch a lot of other lives and give back and change the world for the better as you go through it.
DOOR: Back to the original question ...
LAY: First, in fact, there is no conflict between having a very strong religious faith and being a very successful person in business. Second, I think the main thing that anybody that has a strong faith should do is practice it, live it, share it and, obviously, do a good job at whatever they are doing. Don't feel that it's something they need to conceal, or hide, or not practice if they're going to be successful.
     They will probably be put in circumstances from time to time that aren't exactly what they would like to see, but they should not be bashful about leaving those circumstances, changing that particular job or whatever else. Because there are a lot of other opportunities out there where a person's faith is a plus—certainly not a minus.
DOOR: You said you've felt, at each step of the way, whether you knew it or not, God was leading you toward this job. What about the person who is just not sure of the call, who is not sure what they are supposed to be doing?
LAY: I think we all feel a nudging to go one direction or another and this may be related to one's faith and may not. But at every crossroads, I have taken the direction that I thought appeared the most fun. I say that in a very wholesome way. But as I've looked at different job opportunities, it's usually been pretty clear to me which direction I should go. I thought, "I ought to go this way or that way because it looks fun." And I probably should qualify that by fun I mean, "interesting, challenging, broadening." But it always came down to something that looked like it would really be fun. And that's the direction I've gone and I've shared that with all five of our children. I encourage them to pick things that they really enjoy. Many parents direct children in certain directions—"You need to be a lawyer." "You need to be a doctor." "You need to be an engineer."—or whatever. But if they don't enjoy it, no matter how smart they are, they will not be successful. They will not enjoy their life. I tell my children, "Pick something you really, really enjoy, something you really have fun with—and everything else will work out."