Yes, the four Harry Potter books have sold more than 116 million copies worldwide, they've been translated into 47 languages, the two films produced to date have gone gonzo at the box office and the merchandise marketing rivals any televangelist's sleaziest spiritual schemes. Yet, as the fifth book in the seven-book series looks like it'll be the biggest of all, certain Christian leaders smell something sinister behind this contemporary children's classic. They feel that these magical stories centered on one boy's adventures at Hogwarts, a school for witchcraft and wizardry, represents something far more satanic and sinister.

In an effort to debunk their unholy lies, we sent Door Contributing Editor Becky Garrison to interview Connie Neal, author of What's a Christian To Do With Harry Potter? (Waterbrook Press, 2001) and The Gospel According to Harry Potter (Westminster John Knox, 2002). Before she started bewitching readers with her wizardly wisdom, Connie was a youth minister for ten years and authored more than 30 other books. In typical Door fashion, her well-rounded children can quote from Harry Potter, Monty Python and The Simpsons, as well as the Bible. See www.connieneal.com for a complete listing of all things Connie.

THE DOOR MAGAZINE: Why do you think some Christians think fantasy like Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings are OK reading, but they're up in arms over Harry Potter?
CONNIE NEAL: As Christians, we're supposed to be a light, not a laughing stock.
DOOR: Tell that to Benny Hinn, Jan Crouch or Bishop Spong.
NEAL: We're supposed to have our debates and our discussions with some level of civility, intelligence, and base it on things that are true. From what I'm hearing people say who denounce Harry Potter and applaud C. S. Lewis, they say that in Narnia, the good people don't use anything that could be real occult today that you could go look up and actually do.
   Also, they say, "Well, there are things in Harry Potter that parallel real Wicca."
   In addition, the problem with Harry Potter is this is just the power of good and evil, there's no authority that they are accountable to, and yet in Narnia you have this authority structure where everyone is under the authority of Aslan. The other argument that I've heard is, "Well, in Tolkien and in Narnia, what you have is these other worlds that are separate from our real world, whereas in Harry Potter you have this interchange where the people are going back and forth from real legends in our world into this other world."
DOOR: Sounds like they're missing the overall messages in the Harry Potter series.
NEAL: What it really comes down to is, they're saying, "Well, we know that Lewis and Tolkien were real Christians. We know that they wrote with real Christian intent. J.K. Rowling, we don't know about her." That's where you get all the almost ridiculous allusions that she has these ulterior occult motives, and who knows, she might be a witch. She says she doesn't believe in this kind of magic but what kind of magic does she believe in?
DOOR: Are there valid concerns that parents have to go over with their kids?
NEAL: Not everything in Harry Potter is just fantasy. Let's look at what God says are real occult practices and yet, an author can choose to use them in a fantasy. Whichever way we go, it's going to dictate how we judge the rest of the story. I think certain people decided that Harry Potter represents witchcraft, so they went in looking for real occult practices, and hence, they found many instances there.
DOOR: How do 1 Corinthians 8-10 and Romans 14 shed insight into the Harry Potter debate?
NEAL: I am very much in favor of the principles of these scriptures being applied. If a Christian honestly interprets Harry Potter as being real witchcraft, there is valid reason that they couldn't do that, and therefore, for them it would be sin. Other Christians should respect that and not try to convince them otherwise. On the other hand, Romans 14 says, let people be convinced in their own mind, and whatever you can do of faith is not sin to you, but not judge each other. So, I really tried to help Christians on both sides of this think more broadly and understand the real danger here.
DOOR: What do you think Jesus would do if He saw one of His disciples reading Harry Potter? In the original Aramaic, of course.
NEAL: I am one of His disciples. He does see me reading Harry Potter, and I am totally at peace with it. I have no qualms whatsoever that God knows. As the scripture says, "make it your ambition in life to be pleasing to God." If I had made it my ambition in life a long time ago to be pleasing to all the other Christians, I would have been so hogtied I would not have accomplished anything for the gospel.
DOOR: How do you apply gospel teachings when reading Harry Potter to your children?
NEAL: I have used it to teach them discernment of good people. I began by saying, "Here is Deuteronomy 18; here is all the things that are forbidden in our world. Harry Potter is a fantasy story, and in this fantasy story you're going to find some of these things that are real in our world. As we're reading the story, you be on the alert, and point them out to me, and let's make sure you know everything the Bible says never to do." We were able to go through and practice discernment.
DOOR: How do you use Harry Potter books as a way to lead someone to Christ?
NEAL: I used the story of The Sorcerer's Stone as a parallel to the gospel. You have the evil wizard who has the curse of death, and he throws the curse of death at Harry. Harry's mother loved him so much she threw herself in front of the curse, she died, and after that the curse was broken. So Harry rebounded on the evil wizard, broke his power. But the evil wizard is still at large - so all the kids trying to be on the side of good have to be on the alert constantly. At the end of the story the evil one couldn't touch him, and when asked why, Dumbledore said, "Because Harry, to be loved as much as your mother loved you, that is a protection that stays with you forever." So I am able to say, "That's what Jesus did, he jumped in front of the curse of death for us, He died on the cross, He took the curse on himself, and now the curse of death is broken so that the evil one cannot destroy us because we are sealed by the Holy Spirit."
DOOR: But then you also have the problem of Voldemort and the forces of evil.
NEAL: Just like in Harry Potter, the Evil One's ultimate power over us is broken - but he's still on the loose. So, the scripture says resist him and he will flee from you, which is what happens with the evil one at the end of The Sorcerer's Stone. That's why Christians are so worried and concerned because some of the things that are done in Harry Potter, the Bible says are real and would open them up to real spiritual forces of darkness.
DOOR: Elaborate on the controversy surrounding Harry's scar.
NEAL: One of the things that you deal with in any fantasy is it's replete with symbols and icons. I'm told that icons can carry whatever meaning we assign to them. Now it helps that the meaning we assign actually can be backed up with the story line. But there is a video out where they show the scar on Harry's forehead, and then they show the swastika, and then they show the emblems on the SS guards who are marching, carrying torches in the Nazi march, then this blatant announcement that the scar on Harry's forehead is the same symbol on the SS guards' uniform. It's "S" for Satan, and so it carries that meaning for some people.
DOOR: You've got to be kidding.
NEAL: I went back to scripture with my kids and said let's look at it. How did Harry get this scar? Harry got the scar when the evil wizard hit him with the curse of death but the curse of death didn't work anymore, so there was a lightning bolt scar left on his forehead. Now, is there a place in the Bible where Jesus talked about lightning related to demonic activity and the battle between the forces of darkness and the forces of good?
DOOR: Duh, yeah.
NEAL: When Jesus sent out his disciples two by two, they went out and they were amazed because even the demons were subject to them in Jesus' name. Jesus said, "Don't be amazed at this. I saw Satan cast out of Heaven like lightning. Rather rejoice that your name is written in the book of life." So I said to my children, "Okay, this is what the symbol is going to mean for us, it's going to remind us that Harry got that scar when life triumphed over death, and good triumphed over evil, and Jesus is telling us we have power over the evil ones in His name, because we've been given eternal life. The evil one was cast down and his powers broken. That all fits the story, and it fits the scripture, and I can use it now to talk to any kid who happens to have a Harry Potter lightening bolt on their backpack.
DOOR: Harry's Uncle Vernon kind of reminds us a little of the story of Jonah because despite his interventions, Harry still got his invitation to attend Hogwarts.
NEAL: Jonah ended up out in the middle of the sea, and Harry ends up out on a rock in the middle of the ocean, and even that couldn't stop his invitation into this other kingdom. What I drew on was how we see that God's invitation comes to us through his word. There are many times we've seen through the course of history and in the Bible where people try to destroy the invitation God was giving and stop the word. We see during Jeremiah's time that the king took the prophecy and burned it, which we saw Vernon Dursley burning these invitations.
DOOR: Kids enjoy that you have this scrawny kid who really has these amazing powers.
NEAL: We need to understand what it is in these Harry Potter stories that resonates with these kids' hearts. Here's this kid who doesn't have any power. He's a weakling and when he gets into this other realm, suddenly he has power. Also, he discovers that in his weakness he is strong. For example, being skinny makes him great as a seeker on the Quidditch team. Kids are very hungry for supernatural power, they're hungry for protection against evil, they're hungry to belong to a group where they can bind together and feel somewhat safe in a very unsafe world. They want to be known, loved, and belong. All of those things that are really the hallmark of what Harry experiences, those are things we can show kids are really in what it means to be in Christ, and in the supernatural realm of the kingdom of God. I'm not talking just in church. I'm talking into the kingdom of God, and experiencing the power of God, within a community that loves each other even though they have their differences.
DOOR: How does the platform nine and three quarters suggest that when it comes to faith, believing is seeing?
NEAL: First of all, I think it's very important, as my son pointed out, "Mom, just like I know I don't really get into Narnia by looking at the back of my closet, I know that I'm not going to go run into the wall at the train station and get to Hogwarts." Symbolically, Harry was told, if you believe that there is a platform nine and three quarters, and you believe that there is a train that's going to take you to this other world you've been invited into, what you have to do is just walk straight into that wall, and when you believe and operate in faith, and do that, you will be able to get through into this other realm that no one else can see. It's here, anyone can do it, and no one would go running into the wall at the train station unless they believed first. So likewise, the Bible says that you're going to believe on Christ, and then you're going to be baptized. Now anyone could go and be immersed in water or sprinkled depending on your particular denomination. Anyone could do those things, but no one would do those things unless they believed it had a significance that would be a part of being obedient to God's directions as to how we're to go about getting into his kingdom.
DOOR: Why do you feel that Hermoine is the best person to exemplify the doctrine of original sin?
NEAL: What you see is Hermoine as the conscience of the group. She is constantly the voice of the law. Yet, you see times when Hermoine actually slips and lies to cover up for Harry and Ron, like when they have come after the troll to protect her. She is shocked to see that she too has broken the very law that she knows is wrong. You really see in here, "There is none righteous, no not one." Even the ones who work the hardest and are inclined by nature to want to try and justify them by law, by the law no one will be justified. I think that's a huge, huge part of the gospel, and it's a huge part of understanding morality because we don't become moral people or righteous by keeping the law.
DOOR: Harry also had to exercise his own free will by choosing to go into Gryffindor instead of Slytherin.
NEAL: The sorting hat chose him to be in Gryffindor but, when the sorting hat was on his head, Harry was saying, "Not Slytherin, not Slytherin," and Harry chose to resist evil. Which is it? It's that interplay of both that we see him struggle with - that mystery of, yes, we are predestined before the foundation of the earth, and yet whosoever will, let them come.
DOOR: Do you find it interesting that Albus Dumbledore still allows the house of Slytherin to continue despite what's happened to the wizarding community by the Slytherins?
NEAL: In one of the books Harry makes this statement, "You know, I get the sense that Dumbledore knows everything that's going on, and just gives us enough knowledge so that we can fight the battles ourselves, so that we can learn to fight these battles."
This battle is where our faith is tried and tested, where it's perfected. We can either be baby Christians or those who are mature and have exercised themselves for the discernment of good and evil. Somehow all the terrible things that we are going through, the Harry Potter stories resonate with us because they replicate the true battle of good and evil in our world.
DOOR: How is Hagrid a good example of how our temptations can cause us to lead a sinful lifestyle?
NEAL: For starters, everybody is pretty sure his pink umbrella is hiding his wand that he's not supposed to be using, so he's even breaking the rules of the magical world by using his wand when he shouldn't be. He has a weakness for alcohol that gets him into trouble. His other weakness is he has a penchant for magical creatures, which are illegal in Britain. And so you see Hagrid in a situation where he's obviously a lovable character and a friend to Harry and the people on the side of good but he has all these flaws.
DOOR: What do you think we can learn about redemption from Professor Snape?
NEAL: I don't know yet, as I really went out on a limb about some things I think may have happened with Professor Snape. In every episode so far when we see Professor Snape, he's obviously bearing some sort of grudge and hatred against Harry. We don't know whether that's real or feigned at this point, but you can't look at him and hold him up as this paragon of virtue, and yet, he's the head of Slytherin House. But what becomes very curious about Professor Snape is that we don't know what to make of him because when it comes right down to the end in The Goblet of Fire, Dumbledore says, he's one of us on the side of good against Voldemort.
DOOR: Don't say that name! I mean, but as Snape was once a follower of Voldermort, so he was once a follower of the dark side.
NEAL: We know that he was marked with the dark mark, and yet he severed his ties with the evil one. When the evil Voldemort calls his followers back, Snape chooses not to go back. I think that his name "Severu" indicates that he severed his ties from that, and he is just moving over and trying to be counted on the side of good. Dumbledore affirms that; however, we all know Christians who have come out of lives that have been totally devoted to evil, and there is a progress. We may look at some of the habits that they haven't broken yet, and we may condemn them compared to other Christians' behavior. And yet, God looks on the heart, and He may know that they are on a journey and where they may now say some words that are off color, they used to speak much more profanely. As there is a process that God patiently works with us, that we're changed from glory to glory, and so that's kind of the idea that I began working with. I will be very curious to see what becomes of Severus Snape.
DOOR: How do you think that the kingdom of heaven is like a Quidditch match?
NEAL: In the game of Quidditch, when you are the Seeker, you have to go after the Golden Snitch. The Golden Snitch gets your team 150 points, whereas the Quaffle going through the gold only gets you ten points. So typically, it's the best Seeker that wins the game. In a particular Quidditch game in The Chamber of Secrets, Harry goes all out, and he is seeking to get the Golden Snitch no matter what. Since the stakes are high in that game and the victory is prized, he's going to be willing to lose all else to get his hands on that which is most valuable. Really, that's the picture that Christ painted for us, of how we should seek after the kingdom of God, seeking first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and everything else will be added to you.
DOOR: How does the house elf Dobby exemplify Jesus' teachings about those who are oppressed?
NEAL: Throughout The Chamber of Secrets, the theme of being free from oppression and slavery is replete. You have Dobby, who is bound to serve the house of his master forever, even though the house of his master is an evil house. The only way he can be freed of that bondage and be redeemed is to be clothed with real clothes. The parallel for us in the gospel is that we are really enslaved in sin. Jesus said, "Anybody who commits a sin is a slave of sin and has to be redeemed." We have to be redeemed and given a new garment, and that new garment is the robe of righteousness that Christ purchased for us. That is a picture of when Dobby receives the gift of clothing he is then set free, he can then turn around and use his power to send his old master packing. That's really what the Lord wants us to do once we're redeemed.
DOOR: But not everyone becomes free from bondage. Take Professor Quirrell for example.
NEAL: Professor Quirrell was teaching defense against the dark arts, and yet he believed a false, erroneous, evil philosophy which said there is no good or evil, there is only power in those who seek it. Believing that, he followed the evil one, and he was destroyed. That's what we saw happen to Judas. He believed erroneously, and he betrayed Jesus, therefore the wages of his sin was death.
DOOR: And then there's the betrayal of Scabbers.
NEAL: Ron Weasley's pet rat Scabbers is really someone who betrayed Harry's parents in disguise. You see a real picture of someone who was a friend to Harry's parents, but when it came right down to it, he turned them in and pointed out where they were hiding. That's exactly what Judas did with Jesus. He went to the other side, and he said, "I'll show you where you can find Him so that you can kill Him." The difference is that Judas then died immediately after betraying Christ, and in these stories Scabbers got away to do more damage. We still don't know what's going to become of this rat. We can guess that eventually he's going to get destroyed because he is on the side of evil.
DOOR: How is the Muggle Protection Act a good metaphor for explaining God's love?
NEAL: This act was written so the people in the magical world cannot hurt the Muggles. Throughout the story, Muggles are not good or bad, they're just non-magical folk. So, what I see is that we as Christians, who are involved in the kingdom of God, are aware that there are people out there who are oblivious to the gospel. Even though we disagree with their beliefs, I just think it's so important that we as Christians treat all people with love, and respect, and kindness. We must love them, be they people who are given over completely to evil, or people who are just moral but don't know the Lord. Our attitude toward all of them must be to love them because we don't know who might turn to the Lord.
DOOR: What if anything in Harry Potter would contradict scripture?
NEAL: In Deuteronomy 18:9-14, it says do not cast spells, do not use omens, do not consort with the dead, do not be a medium and let a spirit channel through you, and do not go to someone who practices divination and lets spirits work through them. There are real spiritual forces of evil, and if you dabble in anything God forbids, you are opening yourself up to the evil one Satan every bit as much as if someone in Harry's world would inadvertently open themselves up to Voldemort and be working with the dark arts.
DOOR: Do you have any insights into J.K. Rowling's personal faith?
NEAL: One Canadian journalist interviewing her said, "People always ask you do you believe in Satan, do you believe in the occult, and you always say no. But they rarely ask you, do you believe in God, and do you have a faith in God?" And she responds, "You're right. They don't ask me that question. Secondly, yes, I do believe in God." Then the reporter asked, "Would you like to elaborate on your faith?" She said, "I'm very quiet about my faith." He said, "Would you please give more information?" And she said, "Actually, I don't want to. I tend to think that the people who read my books are thinking people. If they understood more about my faith, I think they could figure out where the books might be going."
DOOR: Interesting.
NEAL: I found that very, very, intriguing especially in light of the wealth of biblical allegory present in these books. Now, granted, I'm going and looking for it, and I'm finding it in places I'm sure she never intended it. I understand she didn't go in doing this on purpose, that's not the point of my book. I think it will be interesting once the series has played itself out that we will find out more.
DOOR: Can you touch on the funniest comment you think has been hurled at you by your critics?
NEAL: There was the accusation that I really don't understand what I'm doing, I'm well meaning but misled and misguided. And I am going to be directly responsible for leading untold numbers of children and people directly into the occult. I look at that, and the reason I can't laugh, although it's totally ludicrous, is because Jesus said, "You know a tree by its fruit." First of all, anybody who has actually read my book understands that I go into great detail teaching people how to protect and keep kids out of the occult, so it's contrary to what I've written. Also, I have dedicated my life to leading people to Christ, especially young people, and I can give you a list of specific individual kids I have led out of the occult into Christ, who have gone on to walk with the Lord, to get married, raise families, and do ministries. So the fruit of my life proves the exact opposite. Also, each one of my children is known for their love of the Lord. They are in the world, not of the world. They are able to warn their non-Christian friends of witchcraft and share the gospel. I look at that, and go "Right, I'm feeding people directly into the occult." Mathew 18 says, if you're going to make an accusation against someone, first you check the facts, and you have to prove it by the facts. The facts of my life show that's not happening.

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